THE WELCH COMPANY
440 Davis Court #1602
San Francisco, CA 94111-2496
415 781 5700
rod@welchco.com
S U M M A R Y
DIARY: October 11, 1999 10:55 AM Monday;
Rod Welch
Glucosamine treatment for knee submitted by Kaiser.
1...Summary/Objective
2...Medical History Reviewed, Found Not Material to Diagnosis
3...Eight (8) New Therapies Reviewed
4...Left Knee Has Greater Wear, Why is Pain in Right Knee Comparable?
5...Cortisone and Other Pain Relief Treatments
6...Weight Control and Exercise, Biking and Swimming
7...Hyaluronic Acid Treatment with Synvisc
8...Synvisc Questions Not Addressed by Kaiser
9...Glucosamine May Improve Osteoarthritis, Need Prescribed Usage
10...Research on Internet Yielded Information on Usage
........Arthritis & Glucosamine Information Center
11...Medical Letter: Glucosamine Might Be Effective for Arthritis
......Pain Relief Comparable to Ibuprofen (Motrin, Others)
......500 mg 3 times a day = 1.5g per day???
......Glucosamine Generally Well Tolerated
12...Knee Replacement Strong Possibility in Future
13...Debridement Interim Alternative to Knee Replacement
..............
Click here to comment!
CONTACTS
0201 - Kaiser Permanente
020101 - Dr. Craig M. Boulris, M.D.; Orthopedic Surgeon
020102 - Orthopedic Department
SUBJECTS
Medical, Kaiser
Exam 990910 Knee Treatments
Medical History, Xrays Not Submitted for Meeting
Report Omits Medical History, New Therapies
Report Omits Prescription Glucosamine, Chontroitin
0807 -
0807 - ..
0808 - Summary/Objective
0809 -
080901 - Follow up ref SDS 8 0000, ref SDS 5 0000.
080902 -
080903 - Craig submitted a letter that largely repeats information in his first
080904 - report dated 990925. There is no analysis of possible causes for pain
080905 - in the right knee. New information indicates an MRI may be helpful.
080906 - It appears that medical history and the article on the 8 "new
080907 - therapies" have been reviewed, with minimal comment. Synvisc is the
080908 - only "new" therapy considered for treating my condition. Comments on
080909 - using Glucosamine and Chondroitrin are not clear. Research on the web
080910 - seems to support Craig's idea to use 1.5g per day. ref SDS 0 0546 The
080911 - Medical Letter seems to say Chondroitrin repairs cartilage and
080912 - inhibits enzymes that break down cartilage. ref SDS 0 5933
080913 -
080914 - [On 991018 submitted follow up letter. ref SDS 10 0001]
080915 -
080916 -
080918 - ..
0810 -
0811 -
0812 - Progress
0813 -
081301 - Received email ref DRT 1 0001 from Craig responding to ref DIP 17 0001
081302 - submitted on 991008, ref SDS 8 0001 asking for response to my letter,
081303 - ref DIP 15 0001 submitted on 990927, ref SDS 5 0001, which sets out
081304 - action items from Craig's report, ref DRP 15 0001, reviewed on 990925,
081305 - ref SDS 4 0001, for the meeting on 990910, ref SDS 3 0001
081306 -
081308 - ..
081309 - Medical History Reviewed, Found Not Material to Diagnosis
081310 -
081311 - Craig reports that relevant medical history was considered, that the
081312 - problem is not complicated, and does not require an extensive history
081313 - to make a diagnosis, ref DRT 1 6164, which reflects Richard's view on
081314 - 961222. ref SDS 1 0866
081316 - ..
081317 - This responds in part to record on 990925. ref SDS 4 6734
081319 - ..
081320 - It is always good practice to expressly cite the history reviewed in
081321 - order to establish what was considered.
081322 -
081323 - [On 991028 identified as issue for communication training.
081324 - ref SDS 12 4424]
081325 -
081327 - ..
081328 - Eight (8) New Therapies Reviewed
081329 -
081330 - Follow up ref SDS 4 2303, ref SDS 3 7802.
081331 -
081332 - Craig says cartilage replacement is not an option for my condition.
081333 - ref DRT 1 0161
081334 -
081335 - This may conflict with report on 990910 that pockets of cartilage
081336 - may be missing from the right knee, per below. ref SDS 0 1880
081338 - ..
081339 - Below, Craig proposes Synvisc. ref SDS 0 3942
081341 - ..
081342 - The report on 8 new therapies seems to indicate treatments for
081343 - "implants" and "plugs" which sound like cartilage replacement for
081344 - pockets of wear. ref OF 3 4968
081345 - ..
081346 - He advises that treatments in the article, ref OF 3 0001, that
081347 - he does not comment on are either not treatments for the knee or not
081348 - relevant to the patient's problem. He reports that the article does
081349 - not present anything that has not been known for years. ref DRT 1 0161
081351 - ..
081352 - This responds in part to record on 990925. ref SDS 4 4955
081354 - ..
081355 - It is good practice to expressly cite a therapy and state why it is
081356 - not relevant or will not work, rather make sweeping generalizations.
081357 -
081359 - ..
081360 - Left Knee Has Greater Wear, Why is Pain in Right Knee Comparable?
081361 -
081362 - Follow up ref SDS 4 3088, ref SDS 3 1224.
081363 -
081364 - Craig says the amount of discomfort does not always equate to the
081365 - level of arthritis on an Xrays. Therefore, while your right knee may
081366 - at times or always hurt more than the left, your left knee xray may
081367 - appear to have more arthritic wear. This may be due to the exact
081368 - location of the wear. ref DRT 1 0001
081370 - ..
081371 - This responds to the question on 990925. ref SDS 4 3088
081373 - ..
081374 - Do the diagrams Craig prepared on 990910 explaining "pockets" of
081375 - cartilage damage relate more to the right knee, ref SDS 3 7872, which
081376 - seems to have pain comparable to the left knee. ref SDS 3 1224
081378 - ..
081379 - If that were true, would cartilage replacement be an option?
081381 - ..
081382 - Would an MRI or similar techniques help address this issue? see below
081383 - discussion on Synvisc. ref SDS 0 3942
081384 -
081385 - [On 991018 article indicates MRI might be helpful. ref SDS 10 4620]
081386 -
081387 - [On 991028 doctor says MRI not helpful in this case. ref SDS 12
081388 - 5820]
081389 -
081390 -
081391 -
081392 -
081393 -
0814 -
SUBJECTS
Cortisone
Pain, Swelling Avoidance, Motrin, Tylenol
1004 -
100501 - ..
100502 - Cortisone and Other Pain Relief Treatments
100503 -
100504 - Follow up ref SDS 4 3955, ref SDS 3 5394.
100505 -
100506 - Craig relates national standard methods of initial conservative
100507 - treatments for pain relief, which repeat information in his report on
100508 - 990925. ref SDS 4 4524 He says...
100509 -
100510 - Tylenol and anti-inflamatory pills (motrin, ibuprofen, etc.),
100512 - ..
100513 - Activity modification (avoiding aggravating activities),
100514 - ref DRT 1 0330
100516 - ..
100517 - Craig advises that, if conservative measures fail, e.g., pain relief
100518 - and alternative supplements like Glucosamine, then cortisone injection
100519 - is a viable option because, while it does not cure the problem, it
100520 - decreases swelling and therefore decreases pain. ref DRT 1 3077
100522 - ..
100523 - Craig uses cortisone regularly when conservative measures fail, which
100524 - is noted in my letter on 990927, ref DIP 15 3536, citing the record on
100525 - 990910, ref SDS 3 5394, that the initial aim is to avoid further
100527 - ..
100528 - My letter on 990927, ref SDS 5 0001, recognized these points about
100529 - pain relief, including cortisone, ref DIP 15 3536, and requested
100530 - support for trying Glucosamine treatment, ref DIP 15 7455, in
100531 - accordance with the record on 990925. ref SDS 4 3955 and ref SDS 4
100532 - 3120
100533 -
100534 -
100535 -
100536 -
1006 -
SUBJECTS
Exercise, Weight, Biking, Swimming
Strength Relieves Stress on Knee Joints
Neoprene Brace
1505 -
150601 - ..
150602 - Weight Control and Exercise, Biking and Swimming
150603 -
150604 - Craig says exercise to maintain strength and keep weight down (low
150605 - impact exercises like biking, swimming are preferred), ref DRT 1 0738,
150606 - which reflects information discussed on 990910. ref SDS 3 9633
150608 - ..
150609 - Research on the web today yielded recommendation to use Glucosamine,
150610 - ref SDS 0 0900, and to exercise. ref SDS 0 9066
150612 - ..
150613 - The letter to Craig on 990927, ref DIP 15 2955, reported biking is
150614 - being tried. ref SDS 5 0001]
150616 - ..
150617 - Craig confirms instructions in his report on 990925, ref SDS 4 4524,
150618 - that a neoprene brace can help. ref DRT 1 7304
150619 -
150620 -
150621 -
150622 -
150623 -
1507 -
SUBJECTS
Synvisc Injection Therapy
1603 -
160401 - ..
160402 - Hyaluronic Acid Treatment with Synvisc
160403 - Synvisc Questions Not Addressed by Kaiser
160404 -
160405 - Follow up ref SDS 4 2275, ref SDS 3 7802.
160406 -
160407 - Craig says Synvisc is an option, although the rate of success for this
160408 - treatment has not been as high as he would like to see. ref DRT 1 3079
160410 - ..
160411 - A specific "rate of success" is not presented, e.g., 4 in 10, 50 in
160412 - 80, 5,000 in 7600, which conveys the level of confidence warranted by
160413 - any "rate." Is rate is based on use at Kaiser nation-wide, the Walnut
160414 - Creek hospital, Craig's personal practice, or some source? How do
160415 - rates of success vary according to age, degree and type of arthritic
160416 - condition? Is Craig thinking about both knees, the right or left,
160417 - which he indicates today have different types of problems. ref DRT 1
160418 - 0001
160420 - ..
160421 - Prior questions on Synvisc in the record on 990925, ref SDS 4 2275,
160422 - requested in the letter, ref DIP 15 0001, submitted on 990927,
160423 - ref SDS 5 0001, are not addressed by Craig's letter today.
160424 -
160425 -
160426 -
160427 -
160428 -
1605 -
SUBJECTS
Glucosamine Chondroitin
1703 -
170401 - ..
170402 - Glucosamine May Improve Osteoarthritis, Need Prescribed Usage
170403 -
170404 - Follow up ref SDS 4 3120.
170405 -
170406 - On 990925 Craig's report explained Glucosamine, but not Chrondroitin,
170407 - and did not suggest a treatment plan. ref SDS 4 3120
170409 - ..
170410 - Craig says in his letter today consider Glucosamine 1.5g per day.
170411 - Glucosamine is not a drug, is not regulated by the FDA, does not
170412 - require a prescription to purchase and can be bought in any drug
170413 - store, supermarket, Costco, via mail, etc. ref DRT 1 4118
170414 -
170415 - [On 991026 Don Harms is taking Glucosamine Chondroitin in this
170416 - approximate dosage. ref SDS 11 3392]
170418 - ..
170419 - Below, research on the Internet yielded information that seems to
170420 - align somewhat with 1.5g per day. ref SDS 0 9066 The Medical Letter
170421 - reviews studies where patients take 500 mg three times a day.
170422 - ref SDS 0 6922
170424 - ..
170425 - Craig's letter therefore addresses only part of the request in the
170426 - letter, ref DIP 15 7455, submitted on 990927, ref SDS 5 0001, for
170427 - guidance on using Glucosamine from review of Craig's report on 990925.
170428 - Craig's letter today does not say anything about treatment using
170429 - Glucosamine in combination with Chondroitin which is cited in his
170430 - report on 990925. ref SDS 4 3120 Since research today shows
170431 - Chondroitin is the ingredient that accomplishes repair and deters
170432 - further ware, and since Glucosamine, by itself, is attributed with
170433 - only reducing pain, per below, ref SDS 0 5933, additional comment is
170434 - needed on this issue.
170436 - ..
170437 - Millie and I were at Costco on Saturday, 991009. We looked for
170438 - Glucosamine and Chondroitrin. There is a large section on these
170439 - products offering each separately and in combination. The amounts or
170440 - dosages in each pill seemed to vary, however, print was so small that
170441 - it was difficult to compare everything, since we did not have a
170442 - magnifying glass.
170444 - ..
170445 - Since we did not have instructions from Kaiser on how to proceed, per
170446 - above, ref SDS 0 6534, we bought a combination pill.
170447 -
170448 - [On 991018 sent letter requesting guidance from Kaiser.
170449 - ref SDS 10 0836]
170450 -
170451 - [On 991028 Kaiser does not answer this question. ref SDS 12 4617]
170452 -
170454 - ..
170455 - Vendor:
170456 -
170457 - Shiff Products, Inc.
170458 - Salt Lake City, UT 84104
170459 - 800 526 6251
170460 -
170461 - [On 991026 Don Harms is taking Glucosamine Chondroitin.
170462 - ref SDS 11 3392]
170463 -
170465 - ..
170466 - Glucosamine Complex.......... 500 mg
170467 -
170468 - Glucosamine hydrochrolide
170469 - N-Acetyl D-Glucosamine
170470 - Glucosamine sulfate (potassium salt)
170472 - ..
170473 - Chondroitrin Sulfate..........400 mg
170475 - ..
170476 - Other ingredients:
170477 -
170478 - Cellulose, coating (titanium dioxide, dextrose,
170479 - hyudroxypropyl methelcellulose, polyethelyne glycol,
170480 - sodium carboxymethyl cellulose, mineral oil, sodium
170481 - citrate, polysorbate 80 and dextrin), copolyvidone,
170482 - silicon dioxide, and magnesium stearate.
170483 -
170485 - ..
170486 - Directions say...
170487 -
170488 - As a dietary supplement take one (1) caplet with meals (3) times
170489 - daily.
170490 -
170491 - Question... does
170492 -
170494 - ..
170495 - 3 x 500 mg = 1,500 mg = 1.5g
170496 -
170498 - ..
170499 - Seems like it might, based on review of web site below where a lay
170500 - person, or salesman, proposes dosages. ref SDS 0 9066
170502 - ..
170503 - Aligns with dosage cited in Medical Letter. ref SDS 0 6922
170505 - ..
170506 - Would like to get Craig, or someone responsible with expertise to
170507 - provide guidance on Glucosamine and Chondroitrin in the same way that
170508 - doctors tell patients to take two aspirin twice a day, or 1 aspirin
170509 - every 3 hours for 4 days, etc.
170511 - ..
170512 - Is the stuff we bought the right thing? ref SDS 0 4940 If not, what
170513 - should we buy?
170514 -
170515 - [On 991018 submitted letter to Kaiser on this. ref SDS 10 0001]
170516 -
170517 - [On 991028 Kaiser does not answer this question. ref SDS 12 4617]
170518 -
170520 - ..
170521 - Research on Internet Yielded Information on Usage
170522 -
170523 - Searching for "Glucosamine" found....
170524 -
170525 - http://www.glucosamine-arthritis.org/
170527 - ..
170528 - ...which is an....
170529 -
170530 - Arthritis & Glucosamine Information Center
170531 -
170532 - ....with helpful research and details on medications and treatments,
170533 - and tips for managing pain.
170535 - ..
170536 - This addresses issues raised by the report Doctor Boulris at Kaiser
170537 - submitted on 990925. ref SDS 4 3120
170539 - ..
170540 - Following the research yielded....
170541 -
170542 -
170543 - Cush's Osteoarthritis & G/CS Page
170544 -
170545 -
170546 - ...at following address...
170547 -
170548 - http://pages.prodigy.net/cushman4/index.htm
170550 - ..
170551 - This appears to be information provided by a lay person who reports
170552 - success using Glucosamine and Chondroitrin. ref OF 6 0001
170553 -
170554 - This person was 50 in 1995. His knees ached all the time, and
170555 - exercise caused sharp pains and irritated them a lot. Standing
170556 - and sitting hurt his knees. All night in bed they hurt. There was
170557 - trouble standing up in the morning. Stairs hurt my knees a lot,
170558 - especially going down. ref OF 6 0002
170560 - ..
170561 - Improvement beginning in March 1997 after taking GS in combination
170562 - with shark cartilage was very noticeable within days. Pain from
170563 - hiking up mountains subsided. ref OF 6 9066 and ref OF 6 4899
170565 - ..
170566 - Results should be recognized within at most 60 days. ref OF 6 4971
170568 - ..
170569 - Glucosamine must be taken "forever." ref OF 6 5000
170570 -
170571 - Contra indications list limitations on taking shark cartilage.
170572 - ref OF 6 2099
170573 -
170574 - This patient seems to take a range of other medications, so it
170575 - is difficult to attribute reduced knee pain. ref OF 6 4933
170576 - ..
170577 - Exercise is strongly recommended, ref OF 6 3966, which
170578 - supports Craig's ideas. ref SDS 0 9588
170580 - ..
170581 - Type and level of exercise is suggested. ref OF 6 5152
170583 - ..
170584 - Consult doctor to approve exercise regimen. ref OF 6 4866
170585 -
170587 - ..
170588 - On May 16, 1999 degeneration in knees was completely stopped.
170589 - After getting worse for years, knees started getting gradually
170590 - better after taking Glucosamine Sulfate with Shark cartilage.
170591 - Improvement leveled off, but knees did not get worse. Patient now
170592 - lives with a certain amount of discomfort and soreness in knees,
170593 - that is minor compared to condition prior to taking Glucosamine.
170594 - ref OF 6 5840
170596 - ..
170597 - The age is the same, but the symptoms are more severe than I have
170598 - experienced so far, since my knees only hurt after exercise, as
170599 - reported on 990625. ref SDS 2 4420
170601 - ..
170602 - Dosage based on weight is...
170603 -
170604 - Under 120 lbs: 1,000 mg GS (or GHCL) and 800 mg CS
170605 -
170606 - Bet. 120 and 200 lbs: 1,500 mg GS (or GHCL) and 1,200 mg CS
170607 -
170608 - Seems to align somewhat with Craig's letter received
170609 - today, per above. ref SDS 0 3120
170611 - ..
170612 - Seems to align with research in Medical Letter.
170613 - ref SDS 0 6922
170615 - ..
170616 - [On 991026 Don Harms is taking Glucosamine Chondroitin.
170617 - ref SDS 11 3392]
170619 - ..
170620 - Over 200 lbs: 2,000 mg GS (or GHCL) and 1,600 mg CS
170622 - ..
170623 - ... as shown in frequently asked questions. ref OF 6 7905
170625 - ..
170626 - The author says he is not selling a book on using Glucosamine, however
170627 - the tenor of the narrative supports a conclusion this person has a
170628 - financial interest in promoting a book, Glucosamine and other
170629 - products. This does not mean recommendations are incorrect, but...
170630 -
170631 - ...we need professional opinion on recommendations.
170632 -
170633 -
170635 - ..
170636 - Medical Letter: Glucosamine Might Be Effective for Arthritis
170637 -
170638 - Another web page seems to be a professional medical publication...
170639 -
170640 -
170641 - The Medical Letter
170642 -
170643 -
170644 - ...is described as a highly respected independent, nonprofit,
170645 - peer-reviewed newsletter intended mainly for physicians. (The fact
170646 - that a physician subscribes to it should be regarded as a sign of good
170647 - judgment.), ref OF 8 4620
170648 -
170649 - [On 991125 sent notice to Steve. ref SDS 13 7654]
170651 - ..
170652 - On 970926 The Medical Letter published an article on page 91 - 92 with
170653 - the title...
170654 -
170655 -
170656 - Glucosamine for Osteoarthritis
170657 -
170659 - ..
170660 - ... ref OF 8 0001, the home page for The Medical letter is at...
170661 -
170662 - http://www.medletter.com/
170664 - ..
170665 - However, access to the article from this location is only available to
170666 - annual subscribers.
170668 - ..
170669 - An alternate route to the document is through...
170670 -
170671 - http://www.quackwatch.com/
170672 -
170673 - ...which is described as....
170675 - ..
170676 - Your Guide to Health Fraud, Quackery,
170677 - and Intelligent Decisions
170678 -
170679 - Operated by Stephen Barrett, M.D.
170680 -
170682 - ..
170683 - This site has a listing, which opens the letter on Glucosamine at...
170684 -
170685 -
170686 - http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/DSH/glucosamine.htm
170687 -
170689 - ..
170690 - However, we do not seem to be able to open the web page independently.
170692 - ..
170693 - The Medical Letter says...
170694 -
170695 - In vitro, glucosamine stimulates cartilage cells to synthesize
170696 - glycosaminoglycans and proteoglycans [1]. In animal models, oral
170697 - glucosamine sulfate has a beneficial effect on inflammation,
170698 - mechanical arthritis and immunological-reactive arthritis, but
170699 - much less that of indomethacin (Indocin and others), ref OF 8
170700 - 0599
170701 -
170703 - ..
170704 - Pain Relief Comparable to Ibuprofen (Motrin, Others)
170705 - 500 mg 3 times a day = 1.5g per day???
170706 -
170707 - In short-term controlled trials, glucosamine has been reported to
170708 - be effective in relieving pain and increasing range of motion in
170709 - patients with osteoarthritis [3]. One four-week double-blind
170710 - trial in 252 patients with osteoarthritis of the knee found oral
170711 - glucosamine sulfate 500 mg three times a day more effective than
170712 - placebo in relieving symptoms [4]. ref OF 8 0526
170714 - ..
170715 - This seems to be the 1.5g cited by Craig in his letter today.
170716 - ref SDS 0 3120
170718 - ..
170719 - Studies on Glucosamine only report pain relief. There is no
170720 - mention of regenerating depleted cartilage, nor of preventing
170721 - further wear.
170723 - ..
170724 - Chondroitin maintains viscosity in joints, stimulate cartilage
170725 - repair mechanisms and inhibit enzymes that break down cartilage.
170726 - ref OF 8 2058
170727 -
170728 - [On 000124 Doctor Vincent Yamamoto at Kaiser uses Glucosamine
170729 - and Chrondroitin and reports success in treating knee pain,
170730 - but no restoration of cartilage. ref SDS 14 1680]
170732 - ..
170733 - [On 030807 case study shows personal history using liquid
170734 - Glucosamine Chondroiten and clincial research. ref SDS 15
170735 - FN9N
170737 - ..
170738 - [On 040529 0248 report that Glucosamine Chondroitin in liquid
170739 - form relieved knee pain from hiking 3 - 10 miles per day.
170740 - ref SDS 16 MN9P
170742 - ..
170743 - This suggests that Glucosamine must be used with Chodroitin in
170744 - order to achieve the objective set on 990910 of avoiding further
170745 - knee joint deterioriation, ref SDS 3 5394. The objective was
170746 - confirmed in the letter ref DIP 15 3536 submitted to Craig on
170747 - 990927, ref SDS 5 0001, which cites the record on 990925 showing
170748 - patient goal to address cause of knee joint deterioriation,
170749 - ref SDS 4 3955, and sets plan to use Glucosamine with Chondroitin
170750 - based on treatment plan from medical professional. ref SDS 4 3120
170752 - ..
170753 - None of the studies seem to address this issue.
170755 - ..
170756 - Quantities do not seem to be mentioned for Chontroitin used
170757 - with Glucosamine, which is also not prescribed by Craig, per
170758 - above. ref SDS 0 3120
170759 -
170760 - [On 991026 Don Harms is taking Glucosamine Chondroitin.
170761 - ref SDS 11 3392]
170762 -
170763 -
170764 -
170766 - ..
170767 - Glucosamine Generally Well Tolerated
170768 -
170769 - Gastrointestinal discomfort and nausea have been reported, but
170770 - the incidence was no higher than with placebo. One Medical Letter
170771 - consultant in a area where many patients are taking glucosamine
170772 - has not detected any adverse effects. ref OF 8 1764
170774 - ..
170775 - [On 991026 Don Harms is taking Glucosamine Chondroitin.
170776 - ref SDS 11 3392]
170777 -
170778 -
170779 -
170780 -
170781 -
1708 -
SUBJECTS
Debridement, Arthroscopic
Knee Replacement
1904 -
190501 - ..
190502 - Knee Replacement Strong Possibility in Future
190503 - Debridement Interim Alternative to Knee Replacement
190504 -
190505 - Follow up ref SDS 4 2951.
190506 -
190507 - Craig says Arthroscopy and washing out the knee can be performed
190508 - although results are variable in success and usually only temporary.
190509 - Eventually if pain and loss of function get bad enough (can't walk
190510 - five blocks) a total knee replacement can be performed. ref DRT 1 0778
190511 -
190512 -
190513 -
190514 -
190515 -
190516 -
1906 -
Distribution. . . . See "CONTACTS"