THE WELCH COMPANY
440 Davis Court #1602
San Francisco, CA 94111-2496
415 781 5700
rod@welchco.com
S U M M A R Y
DIARY: May 24, 2013 07:54 AM Friday;
Rod Welch
C21 visit Morris to improve SSD disk performance.
1...Summary/Objective
2...Samsung 840 Pro Slow Correct Disk Controller Error
3...Meeting Morris to Review C21 Slow SSD Results
4...SSD Disks Connected Gray Motherboard Port Labled "SSD"
5...Asus Manual Shows Disk Ports Intel X79 Serial ATA 6GB/s Connectors
6...Asus Manual Lists Marvel Serial ATA 6GB/s Gray Connectors Caching with HHD
7...C21 Control Panel Admin Tools Disk Management Show Disks Out of Sync
8...BIOS C21 Shows DiskExpert Mode Might Effect SSD Performance
9...Internet Indicates Asus Switched Marvel to Silicon Image Controllers
10...Slow Performance Gray Connectors with SSD Common Complaint
11...C21 Tests Near 100% Improvement SSD Performance with Intel 6GB/s Port
12...SSD Cables Switched from Gray Silicon Image 3GB/s to Brown Intel 6GB/s Ports
13...Disk 0 Changed to 256 GB SSD Drive C Disk 1 Made 512 GB SSD Drives DEFGHI
14...Morris Confirms Findings and Corrections to C21 Disk Connections
ACTION ITEMS..................
Click here to comment!
1...We can submit this background for comment to Jessie at Asus, who
CONTACTS
SUBJECTS
C21 Video Card Replace $403.28 Fry's Invoice 8181114 Dated 130506 Fu
2903 -
2903 - ..
2904 - Summary/Objective
2905 -
290501 - Follow up ref SDS 77 0000. ref SDS 76 0000.
290502 -
290503 - Visited Morris in Saragota; he found Samsung 840 Pro SSD connected to
290504 - gray ports on Asus motherboard labeled "SSD." ref SDS 0 PQYU Interent
290505 - research suggests Asus may have changed these connectors from Marvel
290506 - 6GB/s to Silicon Image 3GB/s ports, and the manual was not updated.
290507 - ref SDS 0 WI9H Others report slow performance using gray connectors
290508 - on Asus motherboards. ref SDS 0 1Q4K Since the Asus manual indicates
290509 - the Intel brown connectors support 6GB/s SSD operations, ref SDS 0
290510 - L14F, and that gray connectors configure SSD disk caching with HHD
290511 - disks, ref SDS 0 QU6L, Morris switched the 2 Samsung 840 Pro SSD cable
290512 - connections from the gray port marked "SSD" on the c21 motherboard,
290513 - which seems to be a 3GB/s Silicon Image port, to the Intel 6GB/s ATA
290514 - serial port. ref SDS 0 1E8O C21 then showed approximate 100% increase
290515 - in disk performance. ref SDS 0 0K4I In the afternoon, received letter
290516 - from Morris explaining findings and corrections. ref SDS 0 KO5L
290517 -
290518 -
290519 -
290520 -
290521 -
290523 - ..
2906 -
2907 -
2908 - Background
2909 -
290901 - Samsung 840 Pro Slow Correct Disk Controller Error
290902 -
290903 - Follow up ref SDS 77 Y94K, ref SDS 76 Y94K.
290904 -
290905 - On 130522 received letter from Ascendtech with references to Asus
290906 - Internet support services to upgrade disk controller, reported on
290907 - 130522 1741, ref SDS 76 IO93
290909 - ..
290910 - On 130523 called Asus and received case number 2659073; talked to
290911 - Jessie in Motherboard Support Department - 812 282 2787, ref SDS 77
290912 - QM4K, and upgdated Asus Sabertooth X79 motherboard chipset, which
290913 - cleared Windows Action Center error message, but did not improve SSD
290914 - running at only 50% rated performance. ref SDS 77 EJ8F Jessie then
290915 - assisted in updating SATA driver, but this did not improve SSD
290916 - performance. ref SDS 77 GL4F
290918 - ..
290919 - On 130523 Asus support rep noted that since SSD is running 50% of
290920 - rated performance, factory may have connected cables to wrong data
290921 - connectors. ref SDS 77 PSTX Received letter from Asus with manual for
290922 - Sabertooth X79 motherboard. ref SDS 77 RQ6H Review of the manual
290923 - seems to indicate SSD disks should be connected to the gray ports.
290924 - ref SDS 77 PA61
290925 -
290926 -
290928 - ..
2910 -
2911 -
2912 - 0910
2913 -
291301 - Meeting Morris to Review C21 Slow SSD Results
291302 -
291303 - Drove to Morris' place in Saratoga.
291304 -
291305 -
291307 - ..
2914 -
2915 -
2916 - 1012
2917 -
291701 - Meeting with Morris.
291702 -
291703 - Opened c21 case.
291705 - ..
291706 - Had to remove the NVIDIA Twin FrozrIII 3GB video adapter circuit board
291707 - to observe and access cable connections from the disks to the
291708 - motherboard.
291709 -
291711 - ..
291712 - SSD Disks Connected Gray Motherboard Port Labled "SSD"
291713 -
291714 - Morris noticed data cables for the 2 SSD disks in c21 connect to a
291715 - port on the motherboard labeled "SSD." It is gray and located at the
291716 - opposite end from the brown connectors, part of the "Internal
291717 - Connector" group shown in the Asus Sabertooth X79 motherboard manual
291718 - on page 2-19, reported in the record yesterday on 130523 0925.
291719 - ref SDS 77 PA61
291721 - ..
291722 - Morris asked who applied the "SSD" label?
291724 - ..
291725 - It is not clear in the record if this is an Asus label notifying OEM
291726 - techs where to connect SSD cables; or, if Ascendtech applied the "SSD"
291727 - lable to facilitate future service.
291729 - ..
291730 - Morris further noted the data cables are labeled 6G, so the problem
291731 - is not with substandard cabling.
291732 -
291733 -
291735 - ..
291736 - Asus Manual Shows Disk Ports Intel X79 Serial ATA 6GB/s Connectors
291737 -
291738 - Morris reviewed the Asus manual page 2-2 showing motherboard layout,
291739 - and pages 2-17 - 2-19, referenced in the letter received from Asus
291740 - yesterday on 130523 0925, ref SDS 77 RQ6H, and transmitted to Morris
291741 - in a letter later that day. ref SDS 77 WQ49
291742 -
291743 - http://dlcdnet.asus.com/pub/ASUS/mb/LGA2011/SABERTOOTH-X79/E8040_SABERTOOTH_X79.pdf
291745 - ..
291746 - The Asus manual says on page 2-17 in part that the brown ports on the
291747 - c21 Sabertooth X79 motherboard support...
291748 -
291749 - Intel X79 Serial ATA 6GB/s connectors (7-pin SATA6G_1/2
291750 - - brown)
291752 - ..
291753 - These connectors connect to Serial ATA 6GB/s hard disk
291754 - drives via Serial ATA 6GB/s signal cables.
291755 -
291756 - [...below on 130524 0754 at 1120, Morris switched SSD
291757 - cables from gray ports marked "SSD" on motherboard, to
291758 - brown Intel X79 Serial ATA 6GB/s connectors, and this
291759 - improved performance about 100%. ref SDS 0 1E8O
291760 -
291762 - ..
291763 - Asus Manual Lists Marvel Serial ATA 6GB/s Gray Connectors Caching with HHD
291764 -
291765 - The Asus manual further says on page 2-19 in part that the ports on
291766 - c21 motherboard labeled "SSD" where cables from the 2 SSD disks are
291767 - connected is...
291768 -
291769 - Marvel Serial ATA 6GB/s connectors (7-pin SATA6G [gray].
291770 - These connectors connect to Serial ATA 6GB/s hard disk
291771 - drives via Serial ATA 6GB/s signal cables.
291773 - ..
291774 - For high performance of ASUS SSD caching, please connect
291775 - one HHD and one SSD to Marvell SATA6G_E1/E2 connectors.
291777 - ..
291778 - For regular usage, the STAT6G_E1/E2 connectors are
291779 - recommended for data drives.
291780 -
291781 - [...below on 130524 0754 at 1120, Morris switched SSD
291782 - cables from gray ports marked "SSD" on motherboard, to
291783 - brown Intel X79 Serial ATA 6GB/s connectors, and this
291784 - improved performance about 100%. ref SDS 0 1E8O
291785 -
291786 -
291788 - ..
291789 - C21 Control Panel Admin Tools Disk Management Show Disks Out of Sync
291790 -
291791 - Powered up c1 to examine disk and partition layout.
291793 - ..
291794 - Ran Administrative Tools and checked...
291795 -
291796 - Control Panel
291797 - Administrative Tools
291798 - Computer Management
291799 - Disk Management
291801 - ..
291802 - Morris asked why drive c with the OS on drive c is connected as disk 1
291803 - instead of disk 0?
291805 - ..
291806 - Reviewed the record ordering standard configuration disk 0 drive c
291807 - with OS, reported in a letter to Ascendtech on 130415 1524.
291808 - ref SDS 57 5O5H Ascendtech for some reason changed the order. It
291809 - does not effect performance, reported by Ascendtech on 130521 1233.
291810 - ref SDS 75 918O Disks out of sync with with drives confuses system
291811 - management, reported previously on 130509 0821. ref SDS 72 ST6M
291812 -
291813 - [...below on 130524 0754 at 1120 Morris changed disk
291814 - connections synchronizing disk order with partitioning.
291815 - ref SDS 0 IB4I
291816 -
291817 -
291819 - ..
291820 - BIOS C21 Shows DiskExpert Mode Might Effect SSD Performance
291821 -
291822 - Morris restarted c21, and opened the BIOS, and found...
291823 -
291824 - Tools
291825 - DiskExpert Mode........................ Normal
291827 - ..
291828 - This feature has an option for........................ Super Speed
291830 - ..
291831 - The explanation sounds somewhat promising for increasing disk
291832 - performance. There is a caution that all the data will be destroyed,
291833 - so would have to re-do all the work setting up c21, shown on 130509
291834 - 0821. ref SDS 72 0001
291836 - ..
291837 - However, "Diskexpert" mode setting in the BIOS is for caching SSD
291838 - disks to a conventional HHD using the gray Marvel ports on the
291839 - motherboard, as c21 is currently configured received from Ascendtech,
291840 - per above, ref SDS 0 TS34, and as set out in the Asus manual on page
291841 - 2-19, also above. ref SDS 0 QU6L
291842 -
291844 - ..
291845 - Internet Indicates Asus Switched Marvel to Silicon Image Controllers
291846 -
291847 - Research on the Internet for...
291848 -
291849 - asus bios diskexpert mode
291851 - ..
291852 - Found source at...
291853 -
291854 - http://vip.asus.com/forum/view.aspx?id=20091125232019359&board_id=1&model=P5Q+Deluxe&page=1&SLanguage=en-us
291856 - ..
291857 - This presents "rumor" that...
291858 -
291859 - "...DriveXperT system uses a hardware Steelvine Silicon Image
291860 - controller..."
291862 - ..
291863 - Further references in Internet "chatter" indicate Asus may have made
291864 - this change because Marvel 6GB/s ATA Serial connectors were not
291865 - reliable.
291866 -
291867 - [...below on 130524 0754 at 1630 received letter from
291868 - Morris explaining work today on c21. ref SDS 0 KO5L
291870 - ..
291871 - Evidently, the Asus manual saying gray ports are...
291872 -
291873 - Marvel Serial ATA 6GB/s connectors
291874 -
291875 - ...was not updated, when Asus switched to 3GB/s Steelvine Silicon
291876 - Image controllers for the DriveXperT system. Sources further
291877 - references a report that the Steelvine Silicon Image controller
291878 - operates at 3GB/s rather than 6GB/s....
291879 -
291880 - http://www.bjorn3d.com/2008/05/asus-pq5-deluxe-p45-eaglelake-motherboard/#.UaDIDIzn89A
291882 - ..
291883 - Silicon Image SIL5723 controller (Drive Xpert Technology):
291884 - 2 x SATA 3.0 Gb/s ports
291885 - Supports EZ Backup and Super Speed
291887 - ..
291888 - There is no direct documentation from Asus supporting the above
291889 - Internet representations on undocumented changes to the Sabertooth
291890 - X79 motherboard.
291892 - ..
291893 - Problems from delays keeping product manuals synchronized with
291894 - manufacturing changes are cited in the "Typical Day Scenario using
291895 - SDS." ref OF 9 H68J
291896 -
291897 -
291899 - ..
291900 - Slow Performance Gray Connectors with SSD Common Complaint
291901 -
291902 - Another search for...
291903 -
291904 - asus marvell 6gb very slow
291906 - ..
291907 - Found some Internet comments saying in part...
291908 -
291909 - http://rog.asus.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-10904.html?s=c54057ed7d0106af75dbb10838183442
291910 -
291911 - Anyway, movIng on from that. I just got a nice little
291912 - upgrade to a 256GB SSD Crucial M4. I connected it to the
291913 - Marvell 6G port [...on Asus motherboard...] which I had
291914 - heard some negative things about when people was using
291915 - RAID. However, I'm using a single drive here so thought I
291916 - shouldn't have a problem. I done a benchmark using ATTO
291917 - and was extremely shocked to see the poor results.
291918 - Seriously, how can you advertise SATA III 6GB on this board
291919 - when you're extremely lucky to achieve half the rated
291920 - speed!!!
291922 - ..
291923 - Don't get me wrong, I like ASUS and will buy from them
291924 - again but I think the RIIIE was a mistake, maybe they
291925 - released it too soon to compete against EVGA?
291926 -
291928 - ..
291929 - Another source says...
291930 -
291931 - http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2299742
291932 -
291933 - Date: 130204 0135
291934 -
291935 - How do I get faster read speeds with my Samsung 840 Pro?
291936 -
291937 - I just installed my Samsung 840 Pro SSD and running AS
291938 - SSD benchmark shows that I'm only getting a read speed
291939 - of about 270mb/s.
291941 - ..
291942 - I'm using an ASUS PX58D-E mobo w/ AHCI enabled and
291943 - Marvell 91XX 6G Controller.
291945 - ..
291946 - I've seen people post higher read speeds (500mb/s+) on
291947 - the same SSD.
291949 - ..
291950 - What am I doing wrong?
291952 - ..
291953 - These reports seem to align with experience running c21 with SSD at
291954 - 50% of rated performance, shown on 130509 0821. ref SDS 72 5W6L
291956 - ..
291957 - Response...
291959 - ..
291960 - Date: 130204 0323
291961 -
291962 - These users probably have connected the SSD to a
291963 - native Intel 6G SATA AHCI Controller as part of their
291964 - Southbridge. This combination is much faster than
291965 - yours.
291966 -
291968 - ..
291969 - Further research today found that references in the Asus manual on
291970 - page 2-17 to...
291971 -
291972 - "Intel X79 Serial ATA 6GB/s connectors..."
291973 -
291974 -
291975 - ...refers to connecting SSD disks.
291977 - ..
291978 - Thus, it appears that the 2 Samsung 840 Pro SSD disks are connected
291979 - with 6G cables to 3G ports, labeled "SSD," and so yield 50% througput
291980 - for Samsung 840 Pro SSD disks designed to yield 6GB/s performance.
291982 - ..
291983 - It further appears this is a common problem with Asus motheboards, at
291984 - least for the Sabertooth X79, due to a confusing manual.
291986 - ..
291987 - Evidently, the "SSD" presented on page 2-19 in the Asus manual
291988 - explains configuring a hard disk cache with an SSD using DiskExpert
291989 - mode in the BIOS, per above, reported yesterday on 130523 0925.
291990 - ref SDS 77 PUVQ
291992 - ..
291993 - This research aligns with Jessie's recommendation yesterday on 130523
291994 - 0925, ref SDS 77 1O86, that SSD disks should be connected to the brown
291995 - Intel X79 Serial ATA 6GB/s connectors, as shown in the Asus manual
291996 - received from Asus later yesterday afternoon. ref SDS 77 RR4N
291998 - ..
291999 - We can submit this background for comment to Jessie at Asus, who
292000 - provided the Asus manual and recommended connecting SSD disks in c21
292001 - to the Brown Intel 6GB/s connection ports, reported yesterday on
292002 - 130523 0925. ref SDS 77 1O86
292004 - ..
292005 - Will submit also to Ascendtech to assist other customers.
292007 - ..
292008 - It's possible Ascendtech connected the SSD cables to the gray ports
292009 - because the manual mentions "SSD" in the section on page 2-19, per
292010 - above, ref SDS 0 QU6L, and placed the "SSD" label on that port.
292011 -
292012 -
292013 -
292015 - ..
2921 -
2922 -
2923 - 1120
2924 -
292401 - C21 Tests Near 100% Improvement SSD Performance with Intel 6GB/s Port
292402 - SSD Cables Switched from Gray Silicon Image 3GB/s to Brown Intel 6GB/s Ports
292403 - Disk 0 Changed to 256 GB SSD Drive C Disk 1 Made 512 GB SSD Drives DEFGHI
292404 -
292405 - Based on this research, Morris disconnected cables from the gray
292406 - Steelvine Silicon Image caching ports labled "SSD" on the motherboard
292407 - and connected them to the brown Intel X79 Serial ATA 6G/s ports, per
292408 - manual guidance, above. ref SDS 0 O26X
292410 - ..
292411 - He further switched connections making disk 0 the Samsung 840 Pro 256
292412 - GB SSD with the OS on drive c. He connected the 2nd SSD 512 GB as
292413 - disk 1, adjusting the order shown in Admin tools Disk Management, per
292414 - above. ref SDS 0 6O9L This corrects report of disks not synchronized
292415 - shown on 130509 0821. ref SDS 72 ST6M
292417 - ..
292418 - Testing then showed 100% inmprovement compared to prior testing on
292419 - 130509 0821. ref SDS 72 5W6L
292420 -
292421 - 130509 130524
292422 -
292423 - Overall rating.............. 2134 3823.0
292424 - Sequential read............. 268 MB/sec 463.3
292425 - Sequential write............ 158 MB/sec 399.3
292426 - Random read write........... 139 MB/sec 194.5
292428 - ..
292429 - This approximate doubling of performance for drive c, substantially
292430 - resolves issue presented on receiving c21 from Ascendtech, as reported
292431 - on 130509 0821. ref SDS 72 5W6L
292432 -
292433 - [...below on 130524 0754 at 1630 received letter from
292434 - Morris explaining work today on c21. ref SDS 0 KO5L
292436 - ..
292437 - Results continue well below 540/520 MB/s sequential read write ratings
292438 - for Samsung 840 Pro SSD, shown in the record on 130404 1453.
292439 - ref SDS 51 MV4L
292440 -
292441 -
292442 -
292444 - ..
2925 -
2926 -
2927 - 1210
2928 -
292801 - Went to lunch at Five Guys on Prospect Road...
292802 -
292823 -
292824 -
292826 - ..
2929 -
2930 -
2931 - 1630
2932 -
293201 - Morris Confirms Findings and Corrections to C21 Disk Connections
293202 -
293203 - Received letter from Morris saying...
293204 -
293205 - 1. Subject: RE: ASUS Sabertooth X79 Manual
293206 - Date: Fri, 24 May 2013 11:48:21 -0700 PDT
293210 - ..
293211 - 2. Rod,
293213 - ..
293214 - 3. The SSD caching connector appears to be now constructed with a
293215 - Silicon Image caching chip (According to internet chatter "The
293216 - DriveXperT system uses a hardware Steelvine Silicon Image
293217 - controller"
293218 -
293219 - http://vip.asus.com/forum/view.aspx?id=20091125232019359&board_id=1&model=P5Q+Deluxe&page=1&SLanguage=en-us
293221 - ..
293222 - 4. This chip only supports 3gb SATA and is intended to cache a
293223 - regular HD to a SSD.
293225 - ..
293226 - This aligns with work earlier today, above. ref SDS 0 WI9H
293228 - ..
293229 - 5. The SSDs were moved to the two 6GB SATA ports (brown) on the
293230 - intel chipset. Performance doubled, improving to within 10% of
293231 - the manufactures rating. (About as good as you will get without
293232 - hardware disk exercisers).
293234 - ..
293235 - Morris' report aligns with the record of work today, per above.
293236 - ref SDS 0 1E8O
293238 - ..
293239 - 6. According to internet chatter, the change in chip was made for
293240 - a good reason, but the documentation has not been updated.
293242 - ..
293243 - This point aligns with the record above. ref SDS 0 SM4G
293245 - ..
293246 - 7. Morris
293247 -
293248 -
293249 -
293250 -
293251 -
293252 -
293253 -
293254 -
293255 -
293256 -
293257 -
293258 -
293259 -
2933 -