CONTACTS
SUBJECTS
Toilet Function Fails 1st Flush American Standard 4021 Problem May b
1103 -
1103 - ..
1104 - Summary/Objective
1105 -
110501 - Follow up
110502 -
110503 - Toilet flush problem might be caused by vent obstruction. ref SDS 0
110504 - FK4L
110505 -
110506 - [On 120706 0700 notified Kathy progress on plumbing issue
110507 - at Gold Creek Lane townhouse. ref SDS 1 0Q9Q
110508 -
110509 -
110510 -
110512 - ..
1106 -
1107 -
1108 - Progress
1109 -
110901 - Toilet in Kathy's bathroom for master bedroom consistently flushes
110902 - every 2 uses.
110904 - ..
110905 - Investigation shows no evident defect in mechanisms.
110907 - ..
110908 - Might be a design feature for water conservation.
110910 - ..
110911 - Product specification...
110912 -
110913 - American Standard tank................. 4021
110915 - ..
110916 - Made in Brazil.
110918 - ..
110919 - Research on the Internet says this may be a venting issue, where
110920 - there should be a 2" vent through the roof.
110922 - ..
110923 - Another authority says...
110924 -
110925 - Ask Me Help Desk
110926 -
110927 - http://www.askmehelpdesk.com/plumbing/first-flush-toilet-does-not-work-right-but-second-flush-works-great-276508.html
110929 - ..
110930 - First Flush of Toilet does NOT work BUT second flush works great?
110931 -
110932 - Any bubbles or gurgles in the toilets when flushed? Are you
110933 - sure the water level in both tanks are 1/2 inch under the
110934 - white overflow tube when the tank's filled?
110936 - ..
110937 - This is the condition on Kathy's toilet. Water level was filling to
110938 - the exact level of overflow tube. Made adjustment to lower this
110939 - slightly, but can try further adjustment to implement .5" standard
110940 - discussed in the Internet recommendation.
110941 -
110943 - ..
1110 -
1111 -
1112 - 1509
1113 -
111301 - Called American Standard....
111302 -
111303 - 800 442 1902
111305 - ..
111306 - Notice that wait time is 16 minutes.
111308 - ..
111309 - There is email address for American Standard on the Internet...
111310 -
111311 - http://www.americanstandard-us.com/contactus.aspx
111313 - ..
111314 - Submitted letter saying...
111315 -
111316 - 1. AS model 4021 fails on 1st flush and only functions on 2nd
111317 - flush.
111318 -
111319 - 2. Adjusted tank level to .5" below overflow. This did not
111320 - correct problem.
111322 - ..
111323 - 3. Crystal in your office said this could be a vent obstruction
111324 - problems - reference #564989.
111326 - ..
111327 - 4. Please submit product specifications showing design that
111328 - controls correct function on each flush.
111329 -
111330 - [On 120708 1430 meeting at Home Depot with Eric indicated
111331 - venting not likely to cause 2nd flush problem, and
111332 - indicated siphoning defect in manufacture or installation
111333 - could be the cause. ref SDS 2 3D5G
111335 - ..
111336 - [On 120709 2042 Tina at American Standard submitted
111337 - drawings that require CAD software, and so cannot be
111338 - reviewed to investigate cause of flushing failure.
111339 - ref SDS 3 SA7G Tina further submitted evaluation
111340 - suggestions which have already been applied without effect.
111341 - ref SDS 3 3B9H
111343 - ..
111344 - [On 120709 2042 at 2203 letter to Tina at AS asks if toilet
111345 - model 4021 has history of design problems, and requests
111346 - speculation on installation error that can cause 2nd flush
111347 - problem. ref SDS 3 VE7R
111349 - ..
111350 - [On 120710 0700 Kathy received copy of this letter
111351 - explaining scope of problem to American Standard, and
111352 - requesting solutions; she commends thoroughness of
111353 - explanation. ref SDS 4 RE4J
111355 - ..
111356 - [On 120710 1549 American Standard concurs problem likely
111357 - due to product defect, ref SDS 5 YS4P; offers complementary
111358 - replacement toilet unit to correct evident product defect.
111359 - ref SDS 5 OU4X
111361 - ..
111362 - [On 120712 0909 letter to American Standard, ref SDS 6
111363 - IQ5Q, asks Tina to facilitate implementing offer to provide
111364 - complimentary replacement toilet bowl. ref SDS 6 IQ5W
111366 - ..
111367 - [On 120712 0909 at 1320 American Standard confirms
111368 - agreement to replace toilet bowl that will correct
111369 - siphoning defect, and requests product specs that match
111370 - water tank. ref SDS 6 1E5F
111371 -
111372 -
111374 - ..
1114 -
1115 -
1116 - 1536
1117 -
111701 - American Standard answered...
111702 -
111703 - Talked to Cyrstal.
111705 - ..
111706 - Reference number..................... 564989
111708 - ..
111709 - Crystal confirmed that water level should be about .5" below overflow
111710 - level. She indicated higher water level improves flush. This
111711 - indicates correction this morning may not be required nor helpful.
111713 - ..
111714 - Crystal further indicated this 2nd flush problem may indicate a vent
111715 - pipe obstruction, like leaves, or a bird's nest. Possibly recent
111716 - roofing work caused debris to partially clog or otherwise damage the
111717 - vent pipe for this unit.
111719 - ..
111720 - Each toilet has separate vent pipe, so one toilet works correctly
111721 - indicating vent pipe unobstructed, while the other is problematic.
111723 - ..
111724 - Need to investigate roof vent for toilet.
111725 -
111726 - [On 120708 1430 investigation found both toilets are vented
111727 - by a common piping system, indicating obstruction at the
111728 - roof line is unlikely, since any such problem would cause
111729 - both toilets to flush incorrectly. ref SDS 2 YT4I
111731 - ..
111732 - [On 120708 1430 meeting at Home Depot with Eric indicated
111733 - venting not likely to cause 2nd flush problem, and
111734 - indicated siphoning defect in manufacture or installation
111735 - could be the cause. ref SDS 2 3D5G
111737 - ..
111738 - [On 120709 2042 Tina at American Standard submitted
111739 - drawings that require CAD software, and so cannot be
111740 - reviewed to investigate cause of flushing failure.
111741 - ref SDS 3 SA7G Tina further submitted evaluation
111742 - suggestions which have already been applied without effect.
111743 - ref SDS 3 3B9H
111745 - ..
111746 - [On 120709 2042 at 2203 letter to Tina at AS asks if toilet
111747 - model 4021 has history of design problems, and requests
111748 - speculation on installation error that can cause 2nd flush
111749 - problem. ref SDS 3 VE7R
111751 - ..
111752 - [On 120710 0700 Kathy received copy of this letter
111753 - explaining scope of problem to American Standard, and
111754 - requesting solutions; she commends thoroughness of
111755 - explanation. ref SDS 4 RE4J
111757 - ..
111758 - [On 120710 1549 American Standard concurs problem likely
111759 - due to product defect, ref SDS 5 YS4P; offers complementary
111760 - replacement toilet unit to correct evident product defect.
111761 - ref SDS 5 OU4X
111763 - ..
111764 - [On 120712 0909 letter to American Standard, ref SDS 6
111765 - IQ5Q, asks Tina to facilitate implementing offer to provide
111766 - complimentary replacement toilet bowl. ref SDS 6 IQ5W
111768 - ..
111769 - [On 120712 0909 at 1320 American Standard confirms
111770 - agreement to replace toilet bowl that will correct
111771 - siphoning defect, and requests product specs that match
111772 - water tank. ref SDS 6 1E5F
111774 - ..
111775 - When did this problem begin?
111777 - ..
111778 - The flush mechanism in this toilet appears new. There is a date on
111779 - the inside of the tank that says 2004.
111781 - ..
111782 - When was roofing work performed?
111784 - ..
111785 - Did problems commence prior or following roofing work?
111787 - ..
111788 - Who is responsible for correcting problems caused by recent roofing
111789 - work that caused toilet vent problem?
111791 - ..
111792 - Kathy might check with Association Management on other tenants having
111793 - similar problems, and whether the roofing contractor sent someone out
111794 - to investigate and take corrective action. Alternatively, Association
111795 - Management may have experience indicating vent piping has been
111796 - obstructed by leaves.
111798 - ..
111799 - Ordinarily vent pipes are equiped with sheet metal cover plates to
111800 - prevent becoming clogged.
111801 -
111802 - [On 120708 1430 investigation found both toilets are vented
111803 - by a common piping system, indicating obstruction at the
111804 - roof line is unlikely, since any such problem would cause
111805 - both toilets to flush incorrectly. ref SDS 2 YT4I
111807 - ..
111808 - [On 120708 1430 meeting at Home Depot with Eric indicated
111809 - venting not likely to cause 2nd flush problem, and
111810 - indicated siphoning defect in manufacture or installation
111811 - could be the cause. ref SDS 2 3D5G
111813 - ..
111814 - [On 120712 0909 letter to American Standard, ref SDS 6
111815 - IQ5Q, asks Tina to facilitate implementing offer to provide
111816 - complimentary replacement toilet bowl. ref SDS 6 IQ5W
111818 - ..
111819 - [On 120712 0909 at 1320 American Standard confirms
111820 - agreement to replace toilet bowl that will correct
111821 - siphoning defect, and requests product specs that match
111822 - water tank. ref SDS 6 1E5F
111823 -
111824 -
111825 -
111826 -
1119 -